“The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of ‘liberalism’ they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.”

Socialist Party presidential candidate Norman Thomas

Thursday, April 17, 2008

The Pope pointlessly dredges up the past

I don't know about you but this rubbed me a little bit in the wrong way...

WASHINGTON - Pope Benedict XVI praised America as a land of opportunity and hope Thursday as he celebrated the first public Mass of his U.S. pilgrimage, but he lamented that the country's promise fell short for American Indians and blacks.

Hope for the future, he said, "is very much a part of the American character."

"Americans have always been a people of hope," he said during his homily. "Your ancestors came to this country with the experience of finding new freedom and opportunity.

"To be sure, this promise was not experienced by all the inhabitants of this land; one thinks of the injustices endured by the native American peoples and by those brought here forcibly from Africa as slaves."

Now why, do you suppose, did the Pope feel the need to remind everybody of the legacy of slavery and our mistreatment of Native Americans hundreds of years ago? What did that have to do with anything? Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect it was his way of telling us we're not as great a country as we think we are by reminding us of how bad of a country we have been in periods past. I think he wanted to take us down a notch. Make sure we know that we are no better than any other country. Am I wrong? Let's have a poll question on this.....

What was the Pope's purpose in pointing out Native Americans and blacks as victims of US mistreatment?
So we don't think we're better than anybody else
He's trying to recruit blacks into Catholicism
He, like most Europeans, resents America's success
The Pope has converted to Black Liberation Theology
Who cares? Put up another pic of Brigitte Bardot in her prime
Free polls from Pollhost.com


Kevin said...

To tell us, Americans that we have a bad history is hypocritical. Does he deny that the catholic church began in the same society that killed Jesus? Does he deny that the Holy Wars existed? And that women and children were sent to fight the churches battles? How about indulgences? Paying for salvation? Or how about the fact that the wealthiest entity on the planet is a church, the Catholic Church? Or if he doesnt deny any of that, does he deny the fact that he is a Catholic? Lets not forget that he comes from the country responsible for the Holocaust. Does he deny that too?

Anonymous said...

As a native German, he might harbor resentment over the fact that, but for the US, all of Europe would be sprechen ze Deutch.

bert said...

it figures this bunch would attack the messenger and not the message. the message by the way is, nations who cannot learn from their past are doomed to repeat it.

Kevin said...

Bert... Have we had slaves since we abolished slavery? No we haven't. We haven't displaced a population to make way for our own population. No Bert, he attacked America.

Bert, did someone else give the Pope this message to deliver? No these are the Pope's words. The pope isn't a politician, he is a religious figure, from another country I might add. Leave American history to our teachers, and worry about the vast corruption in your own church.

bert said...

kevin, no one is blameless. having sin in your life does not mean you cannot point out shortcomings in the lives of others. in this case i think the Pope is pointing out that America has appointed itself the world's police squad and moral arbiter, and its own past should serve as a dampening force, lest we think we are blameless. it was not an attack, just a gentle reminder.

Peter II said...

Kevin: The Pope is an elected religous leader, therefore he is a politician. He and his predessors have much to say about the political climate around the world, and his opions effect the thinking of millions of people. He has parishiners in this country, Italy, Mexio, England, France, all over the Baltic and Slavic states, Africa and Soth America, et al. He talks Catholics listen. You think not, then you, my friend, are naive and wrong. His views will shape world opinion 'til he is Pope no more. His predessors have enjoyed controlling issues as mundane as abortion, genocide, and even land aquisition all in the name of the Catholic church (the Crusades - all about politics). The Catholic church as well as all Christian denominations did not descend from the group that killed Jesus, therfore that is not a point at all. Jesus was condemed to death by the Sanhedrin and the Pharisees. They were religous groups of Jews. They were trying to defend the ways of their world from a movement telling them they were wrong. None were Christian and none were Catholic. I don't know where you get your information, but I don't find it written anywhere that one can "pay" for salvation. Salvation is only received by accepting Christ as your savior and master and allowing him to control your life. The Catholic church is very well financed. It may be the "wealthiest entity" on the planet, but I tend to doubt it. I did get your point, but again power is money and money is power. This man was a Nazi. He has never denied that. That fact alone however does not convict him of being guilty of all of the attrocities you staed. Not every early American owned slaves, therefore not all are guilty of same. Not every Oriental is a marshal arts master either. I think Ed's point is accurate. The Poep wants to use his position to point out thoughts and points of this country that he disagrees with. He acn't say it as fact, or he might lose the largest donation base of his church. Remember he is about money and power.

Kevin said...

Peter II, the pope tried to denounce our country for its "dark" history (i.e. slaves and Native Americans) Okay. I will now denounce the pope's nation's dark history as well as his religion's dark history. Are you ready? Ok, the pope is from Germany, and he was a Nazi. The Nazi's were responsible for the holocaust as you pointed out. What the nazi's did to the Jews was about the worst thing one group of people could do to another. In that brief period of history one group of people managed to kill 6 million people. Pretty staggering. They starved them, shot them, treated them like the scum of the earth. I would say thats pretty dark. Now, as for the Pope's religion. Lets look at some facts. Now, Peter, if you read any of the bible you would also know that Pontius Pilate, a Roman Procurator, which is basically a governor, was responsible for the trial of Jesus, and he is the one that ordered Jesus' crucifixion. And as you know, the largest grouping of early Catholics were in the Roman and Greek city states and provinces. Now, as for the Pope being a politician. He is not a politician. He is a teacher of god. He passes the word of the Lord down to people. Yes he can say slavery and displacing people is bad, because it is, but the manner in which he said it was terrible. He made America out to be evil. He was not preaching a sermon but rather denouncing a nation. As a religious leader he should be able to be more forgiving and give us the benefit of the doubt since we weren't actually around when slavery existed. Also, paying for salvation. Have you ever heard of Martin Luther? He wrote 96 thesis and nailed them to a church door. He was mad because among other things, the church was making people pay for salvation, they were called indulgences. Google it. Tithe? Yes that was a church tax. Not a church donation as it is termed nowadays. Also nowadays it isnt required.

Peter you said that the fact that the pope was a nazi alone does not make him guilty of any of the attrocities committed in that time period. Well by that token, Americans are innocent as well, because we weren't around during slavery nor when the Native Americans were being forced out of their homeland.

Peter II said...

Kevin: I believe I stated that all Americans are not guilty of the slavery issue, reread my paragraph. Pontius Pilate was a Roman governor in the province where Jerusalem sat. Jesus was arrested by the chief priests (Sanhedrin) not the Romans. After being tried and found guilty of blasphemy, Caiaphas, the high priest of the Sanhedrin, turned Jesus over to the Roman authorities. The Romans had taken away any capital punishment privleges of the Sanhedrin against all Jews. Jesus appeared before Pilate and was not found to be guilty of anything. Pilate then asked the gathered crowd whether they wanted Jesus or Barabbas freed. He "washed his hands of this innocent mans blood" and sent Jesus to be flogged and crucified afgter the Jewish crowd, incited by the chief priests, released Barabbas. The man violated no Roman law and was only put to death because of jealous and riotous Jews.
As defined on Wikipedia, the Pope is the Official Head of State of the independent state of the Vatican, therefore he is a politician. The Pope is a teacher as well, but he does not pass the word of God down to anybody. All Christians have the ability to speak directly to God through prayer. The comments shown in Ed's blog do not sound as a denouncement of the USA, more so, a reminder of past actions, that seem to be historically correct and factual. While he is wrong, in my opinion to do this, he is entitled to his thoughts as a leader and therfore he can state that opinion , at least in our country. I know that the Roman Catholic church did many wrong things throughout history,however I can find no writings that reveal that the tithe was ever a "heaven tax". The tithe in its earliest context appears to be a gift to God of 1/10th of ones earnings. That amount was requried by God in the Old Testament writings.

I wonder if you are a christian in practice or just in name? It appears that you have a lot of confusion about biblical teaching and about the results. The church has never been perfect, nor will it ever be. It is comprised of humans ergo it is flawed. I will pray that you discern the truth and live a fulfilled life, hopefully in Christ.

Ed said...

According to my brief but convincing research, Pope Benedict was not a card-carrying Nazi. At 14he, as all 14 year old boys, was required to join the Hitler Youth organization...sort of the Nazi Boy Scouts. He never attended meetings, nor did he ever heard up Jews for slaughter. As an infantryman in he German Army, he never fired a shot and deserted toward the end of the war and was a POW. Ratzinger never goose-stepped through Paris, Warsaw, or Sarajevo. While the Catholic church deserves criticism for lots of things, Ratzinger was never a Nazi in the sense that he's been called one.

Kevin said...

Excellent point Ed! I don't think any American alive today ever owned slaves or displaced Native Americans. Therefore, the pope is wrong in saying what he said. Or he can be right in what he said by denouncing what his country did to the Jews.

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