“The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of ‘liberalism’ they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.”

Socialist Party presidential candidate Norman Thomas

Thursday, October 11, 2007

Irony, thy name is bureaucrat

Many of you have probably seen this outrage of a story but for the uninformed...

New York’s iconic Empire State Building is to be lit up green from Friday in honor of the Muslim holiday of Eid, the biggest festival in the Muslim calendar marking the end of Ramadan, officials said.
“This is the first time that the Empire State Building will be illuminated for Eid, and the lighting will become an annual event in the same tradition of the yearly lightings for Christmas and Hannukah,” according to a statement.

To naive, ignorant multiculturalists, if we are nice to the Muslims, they'll be nice to us. If we appease them, they'll stop trying to kill us. If we show them how much we respect their culture and religion, then they will respect ours. And if you volunteer your lunch money to the bully, he'll stop beating you up. This is the thought process that our leaders use to determine public policy.

"Well", they reason, "the Muslims knocked down the tallest buildings in New York, we'll just have to illuminate the next tallest building in honor of Islam to show them how much we respect and love them".

Do you people see how sick this is? That red-blooded Americans would, in an embarrassing show of dhimmitude,
submissively bow, voluntarily, to the twisted ideology that cost 3000 Americans their lives 6 years ago, is unthinkable to me!

Where is the outrage?


Bobby T said...

Please explain to me the logic of honoring anything "Muslimic", while we have brave young men and women dying to defend our country against their imperical aggression. I see no difference comparing when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, as to the attack on the World Trade Center. Cowardice and moral depravity of civilian life should never be rewarded and should never go unpunished. I am all for lighting something green, I am just wndering if it could be a building in Baghdad and could the glow be from nightglasses observing a huge bombing.

Ed said...

Nice, bobbyt. I like the way you think.

Kevin said...

Bobby T, the Pearl Harbor attack was on the U.S. Navy, where the World Trade Centers were filled with innocent American civilians. But yes, you are both correct, lighting this tower would only be bowing down to the Islamists, and would in fact be doing more harm than good.

Also Ed, I think from now on, the correct term for the Muslims that you speak of should be Islamists. I am not making this up, the Islamists are the terrorists who use the Muslim social policies as their governing ways. They are the ones who are suicide bombers, and terrorists in general. The Islamic faith is actually a very peaceful and tolerant religion, and Islamic leaders do not recognize the Islamists as a part of their faith. I don't mean to be politically correct, but to say that all Muslims are terrorists is sort of stereotypical.

Anonymous said...

As native NYer I see nothing wrong with this. I have a nice view of the Empire State Building and they change the lights for every possible reason. Some are for worthiwhile things, other they seem to just be fishing for something to do.


Either way it is nice to view in the skyline.

Whether you like it or not NYC is a multicultural city. It has been since it was New Amsterdam under the Dutch. They change the colors for Greeks, Puerto Ricans, Germans, Jews, etc. so why not Muslims? We happen to have a large Muslim population here, many of whom have been in this country for a few generations.

I lost a relative on September 11th and I really have no problem with this. The perpetrators of that crime were criminals but not indicative of Muslims everywhere. Kevin is right and it has nothing to do with political correctness, just common sense.

David said...

Let's nip this in the bud as Barney Fife would say.

We are all AMERICANS! e pluribus unum! Calling out the differences and celebrating diversity is weakening us and destroying the once "United" States of America.

Enough of the hyphenated crap.

Go visit another country, ANY COUNTRY, then come back and celebrate being an AMERICAN.

It is impossible to be a hyphenated America. It's part of the binary system: your either an American or not.

I am an I'm D$%^ proud of it!

ed said...

@Kevin and anon,

I did not mean to imply that ALL Muslims are terrorists. You don't really think I believe that do you? I think you're picking nits.

It is, however, a fact that all terrorists are Muslims. When I say Muslims, obviously I mean the Muslims who are terrorists, as well as the millions of Muslims around the world who sit sympathetically on their hands daily and say nothing as their kooky comrades blow something up and kill a bunch of infidels in the name of Islam. By thier silence they are complicit. They enable the terrorists. They are like the get-away driver at the bank robbery...they may not have robbed the bank but they sure made it easier for the theives. And these peace-loving Muslims conveyed their approval through their silence.

I think you are naive to think that "Islam" is a peace-loving, tolerant religion. In theory you are probably correct, the Qaran's commands to slay infidels, Jews, and gays notwithstanding. That being said, in reality the face of Islam is shadowy, backwards, EXclusive, INtolerant, neanderthal, and it denies the natural yearning of the human spirit to be autonomous and free. Where is the individualism we embrace as conservatives in Islam? Where are the women who lead Muslim-owned companies? Where are the Muslim female, or male for that matter, Nobel Laureates? In the premier Muslim country in the world, Saudi Arabia, women aren't allowed to drive, get educated, vote, or watch TV if a man is on. Women can be stoned if their husbands "suspect" infidelity. All it takes is his suspicion and she can be hung, raped, or stoned.

Islam is a backwards, warped, midevil, 11th century, abomination to all that is right and good about human individuality and freedom.

Sorry if that sounds intolerant.

Kevin said...

Ed the terrorists have a name, they are Islamists. All I ask is that you refer to them as such. They are hypocritical, and the reason why the Muslims sit on their hands and don't say anything is because they don't think of the terrorists as a part of their religion. The word Islam literally means peace, hence the passiveness towards the terrorists. Yes the terrorists consider themselves Muslims, but that doesn't make them Muslim. That would be like me saying I'm a Buddhist. I can say it all I want, but until I practice it, and until the Islamists practice the Muslim faith, they won't be Muslim.

Anonymous said...

All terrorists are Muslims? Have you heard of ETA?

David, what do hyphenated Americans have to do with anything being discussed here? Do you have a problem with the Empire State Building chaging its colors for various ethnicities?

David said...

The owners/operators of the Empire State building are free to do as they choose as long as they stay within the confines of the law.

Promoting our differences through hyphenation, multiculturalism, and the intoxication of diversity (above all else) does more harm to this country than good. The motto "e pluribus unum" recognizes our differences while demanding we acknowledge we are all Americans first. This IS our source of strength. We have strayed from this to where our differences are considered first (and often only) marginalizing over two centuries of blood, sweat, and tears.

David said...

If you wuold like I can construct a Venn diagram to settle the Muslim, terrorist, debate.

Anonymous said...

David, I understand your position. What I was asking is how is that relevant to the current discussion?

-bell said...


What had Bagdad to do with Twin Towers?

Ed said...


Have you heard of ETA? Estimated Time of Arrival? Yeah I've heard of it. Relevance?


My point is that the terrorists or Islamists, or whatever label you want to use, ARE the modern face of Islam. Sure they practice an extreme form of Islam unlike most Muslims. That being said, most Muslims won't condemn them when they behave antisocially. I'm no fan of Bush but he was correct when after 9/11, the watershed of this generation, he said you are either with us, or you're with the terrorists. If you are a Muslim and don't take sides, you are complicit.

TR said...

I think what anon had in mind was Euskadi Ta Askatasuna.

Anonymous said...

Yes Tr, that is what i was reffering to.

ed said...

@anon9:02, you said...

Do you have a problem with the Empire State Building chaging its colors for various ethnicities?

Ethnicities? Of course not, but Islam is not a race, it's an ideology, and as practiced today, a hostile one.

I reference the UK pole this summer in which 40% of garden-variety Muslims want Sharia law in the UK and alarmingly, 1 in 5 are sympathetic to suicide bombers. The pole also indicated that those numbers will only increase as Saudi-funded Imams continue to radicalize regular Muslims. Islam may, in some esoteric, historically theoretical way, be the "religion of peace", in the same theoretical way I'm a starting pitcher for the Yankees. You can call a dog a cat all day long, but that won't prevent it from biting you when you're not looking.

When the Empire State Building starts lighting up for Christianity and Judiasm, then I'll listen to the Islam argument, 'till then it's out-right dhimmitude.


I stand technically corrected about all terrorists being Muslim. ETA is a Marxist group advocating the independence of the Basque region of Spain. My point was that all terrorists with few exceptions (Tim McVeigh) who attack the U.S., her assets, and allies on ideological grounds are Muslim.

Anonymous said...

The ESB is red and green for christmas, yellow and blue for easter, white and blue for channukah, etc. If you followed the link I showed above, you can some of the different color shcemes for the various holidays etc..


As far as your argument are you also forgetting all of the terrorist criems committed by those pro lifers who bomb abortion clinics or shoot doctors? Does that mean that Chrisitanity is a religion of violence because some people take it too far? No, the same with Islam.

By lumping all of the muslims together you are in some ways alienating the large proportion of muslims who are moderates.

Anonymous said...

By the way it is spelled poll, not pole.

Ed said...

Thanks for pointing that out anon. My bad.

ed said...

I already stated that I do NOT think that all Muslims are terrorists. But I have a hard time delineating between hardliners and sympathasizers...of which there are millions.

As to your other point about abortion bombers: 1-Nobody more publically or loudly condemns them than Christians. 2-Their numbers are like 10, whereas we have no idea how many terrorists and potential terrorists there are. Maybe thousands of not more. 3-Clinic bombers have a single narrow goal, to end abortion, whereas Muslim terrorists want to convert the population of the entire world to Islam or kill them.

Your comparison is weak and has been tried before. You'll have to bring a better argument than that. The truth is that there are no adequate comparisons to the hostile emigration of Muslims across the globe. They settle and then start demanding that local societies adapt and change to accomodate their kooky culture, threatening violence if there's any resistance to their intrusion.

ed said...

By the way anon, it's spelled "crimes", not "criems".

Anonymous said...

Ed, I hope you understand the difference between a typo and a spelling error.

My comparison is not weak at all. You are basing the actions of a billion people on the views of some extremists. Similarly if I were to judge all Christians based on the views of their extremists(there are more than ten) I would be inncorrect. Furhermore theirgoals are not to convert every person in the world to Islam. The rhetoric spouted out by Imams may sound good but their goals are a lot more complex than a simple soundbite.

Once again, to ignore the moderates only causes more problems. I know a lot of muslims and they think the extremists are idiots. They are Americans who are proud to be here.

Also while I do agree with you there are groups that try to impose their views on their adopted lands, your view of the emmigration problem is not so dissimilar to other groups. Let's see, whichever group was the next to come has beenn treated with racism as they have come. Look at the resistance to the Irish, Italians and Jews to name a few. they were all viewed as "criminnals" and threats to American society. It is way to easy to throw your arms up and say the sky is falling without taking a step back, calming down and looking at the broader historical context.

By the way I can name many examples of extreme Christian or Jewish groups trying to impose their views in various places. Perosally I am for moderates in every instance.

Ed said...

@anon 10:03,

Point 1-I invite all people to come to the US(legally) regardless of ideology and enjoy what free-market capitalism has to offer. With this one caveat, you must adapt and embrace our culture and language while enriching it with your own. Don't come here and demand that we change our culture to suit you.

Point 2-The Italians, Irish, Jews, you name them other than the current tide of illegal Mexicans, all forsook their national allegiances to become Americans. Not hyphenated Americans...just Americans. They learned our history, language, culture, and laws and embraced them all to the exclusion of others. Some Muslims may fit into that but many do not.

A country without defined borders, culture, or language will not last, but will become a disparate collection of clamoring throngs fighting over dwindling resources.

Point 3-This isn't about race. I resent the insinuation. This is about an archaic, third-world belief system being foisted on a modern, first-world culture. For the Arab's(Muslim or not) who immigrated here and embraced our culture and language and became law-abiding, loyal Americans, I couldn't be happier. It's just that there are many whose loyalties lie with State's which are considered terrorist States, to the exclusion of the U.S. That is unacceptable.

Point 4- I do know the difference between spelling and typo's, and you used "emmigration" instead of "immigration". And not only did you use the incorrect word, you also misspelled it...one "m".

Bobby T said...

What a great discourse we have here. I hae many points to respond to:
1- Kevin, there were many innocent civillians killed, along with the innocent soldiers, doctors, nurses, etc in the service during the Pearl Harbor raid.
2- Kevin, the religion of Islam/Muslim is peaceful, after all have accepted their ways. why do you think there has been fighting in the Middle East since the begining of time -b/c not all peoples believe like they do. Note the attrocities experienced in SE Asia as the Muslim religion expands there.
3- Anon, I have no problem with the ESB changing its lighting scheme at any time. I am glad it gives you a good view as well. I however am bothered by the alteration prposed here, b/c it seems to "honor" a group of people that are and have killed Americans. I checked the lighting schedule as you suggested. I find no other color scheme for anyone that has or is our enemy. They do not offer a German, Japanese,or Korean coloring. I am sorry you do not have a problem honoring a culture that is bent on destroying yours as you know it.
4- David, I am with you 100%. We need no more of the ____-American terms, 'cause we all just need to be American. Ed, this agres with your later point about all the Europeans that flocked to America.
5- -bell, my observation was that the US military might opt to detonate an explosive device in a Baghdad building. As we saw during the initial ground campaign, when the cameras were fitted with night lenses, everything glowed green. Attempted humor is a tough thing to explain.
6- Anon, How can you automatically lump Christianity in with the Pro-life abortion bombers? I am sure that some of those people are church goers, but that does not mean they are Christian. That is something that they will get to deal with their maker on their judgement day. I am also sure that many of the pro-lifers are Muslim, etc as well.
7- I'm not sure there is much difference b/w a typo and a spelling error. There is a difference between choice of word and a typo/spelling error and I believe that Ed experienced the latter and not the former, as did you when he was corrected, Anon.
8- To sum this discourse up, I feel that this idea is a bad one. All it has done is to stir up feelings of resentment and anger in some - in a nutshell that isn't why the ESB should be lit.I wonder if the Red Sox win the pennant, if they will light it up in Red and Blue.

Kevin said...

Bobby T, you are correct, there were innocent civilians killed at Pearl harbor, but that isn't what I said. I said that the attack was on a Naval Base. They attacked our Military, not our civilians. Civilians died, but that wasn't their intent. Their intent was to destroy our naval fleet, where as terrorists target our citizens.

Anonymous said...

Ed, Iused emigration because you did a bit earlier, way to correct yourself. You also might want to check your blogger bio, payed is not a word it is paid. Regardless of homonyms you are bringing up things that have nothing to do with the lights on the world trade center. When i reffered to those groups I worte that they experienced prejudice just as the immigrants of today. Then like now there were some bad apples who spoiled the batch and helped give into the stigma of these groups.

Regardles of that, I am wondering if you have ever visited NYC. Everyone here is a hyphenated something. It is possible to keep your ancestral culture and integrate into American society. I see nothing wrong with English being made the official language as one language really helps things. At the same time these waves of immigrants have all offered something to American society from their own cultures which in turn has helped shape society. At least in NYC. I am an American yet I still speak my gradparents native tongue, Albanian. TO deny that I am of Albanian heritage is an insult to my ancestors. As a citizen I am an American and very proud of this. So calling myself an Albanian American describes who I am even though i am just as American as you are.

Bobby T, that is just for the coming few months. Last month it was black orange and yellow for Germany for some German holiday. I know it is yellow annd blue for some Swedish festival. Trust me,
in the summer there is a different parade every sunday for Koreans, Greeks, you name it. I also realize you didnt get the point I was trying to make about abortion bombers, that to associate them with all Christians is folly. The same can be true of Muslims and terrorists.

PS, I really love how you throw out "anon" like it is somesort of insult.

Bobby T said...

Reply: I dont throw out anything as an insult. I was just referring to you by your choice of "handles". What I find odd is why you feel I was singling you out, when I used everyone elses "handle' as well. Aren't you a bit touchy today? I did get your point, but since you obviously think that you are more intelligent than a poor southern boy that isn't a "-American" of any kind, please enlighten me on your point. The same can be true for Muslims and terrorists, it just seems that lately the only group killing folks in a terroristc manner is the Muslims.

Anonymous said...

No the anon thing just kind of cracks me up, I was not upset by it. One of the problems with the internet is you can't really get tone of voice.

I think we can all agree that there are Muslims out there who for various reasons are trying to commit terrorist acts against the whole world. The only point I am trying to make is that there are plenty of Americans who happen to be muslims who are happy to be living here. To be honest I have not heard of anyone getting up in arms over this in NYC so it really shouldnt bother you considering this is where the September 11th attacks were the worst. I happen to like the changes they do on the lights, it gives the skyline a new look.

ed said...

anon, I hate to belabor a point but the difference in emigrate and immigrate is if you are talking about a person leaving or coming respectively. You used emigrate to describe people coming to America.

Your family emigrated from Albana and immigrated to America.

And, if the Albanian contingent started demanding that the US start changing our culture out of submission to Albanian culutre, then I'd be pissed with the Albanians. That's the difference.

I've been blogging for 2.5 years and never noticed the misspelling in my profile. Thanks for reading it and noticing. I'll go change it now.

Anonymous said...

Ed-thanks I understand the difference between the two. You were referring to the emigration problem out of the middle east. That is what I was reffering to, not just the imigration in to the US. Semantics anyone.

no one is demanding you change your culture. To me it just seems like you are overeacting to things that are trivial like the lights of the ESB.

Ed said...

Anon, OK, grammar point conceded. It's not interesting enough to debate further.

Since you are a New Yorker, and the descendant of immigrants, I will yeild to you, the point about the ESB specifically, since you seem to be reasonable and thoughtful. Let's face it, the chances of the ESB handlers choosing to honor Islam by highlighting the new tallest building in NY being simply coincidental, and not from dhimmitude, are roughly the same as Lindsay Lohan's chances of staying out of rehab.

As an American, I retain the right to question the timing and motives of the ESB lighting. I still think it's appeasement but, if time and evidence prove me wrong, I will gladly admit it.